User talk:Fauxlosophe

Nice to meet a new face on this wiki. Glad to see that there are still conlangers out there that try to make original vocabulary and grammar for their languages. This wiki has too few of those. Behru cesik, if you are wondering, is based on sanskrit, inuktitut, and japanese, however, the vocab is original. My advice to you is to keep revising fén ghír until you are satisfied. Just a few days ago I was reading about inuktitut and I decided to add some of those features into Behru. Ive been spending the last few days editing those into the Behru page and I've completely started over on the verbs. I'd guess it might take a few years to make a fully nuanced language (unless you're going    For something like esperanto). I myself am fairly new to conlanging, this is the third reincarnation of Behru (the other two live in notebooks). For being fairly new to conlanging, you seem to be doing a very good job at it. Also, I'd try not to use all the obscure latin grammatical terms In describing your language. I call the dative case in my language the "direction" case, As I find it more descriptive and self explanatory.Greatbuddha (talk) 19:47, September 8, 2012 (UTC) By the way, in Behru, how are you is "xü`weyecka? And "I'm fine" is xùweyu.

Hey
Hey,

Just wanted to say hey.

Unum Suus,

Abbot-Bernard (talk) 03:51, October 28, 2012 (UTC)Aboot-Bernard

The Things from Chat
I think I finally might have a solution for them and how to implement them. Just one more step. 10:50, November 13, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

What are these things?  Pá mamūnám ontā́ bán  17:13, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Lots of fun stuff we thought up, mr. Nosy : } 18:41, November 13, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Excellent. --Fauxlosophe (talk) 00:54, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia seems uncooperative - I'm looking at working at some of my own code for the time being; it seems it won't be just one more step. I need to have a chat with you - when are you available on Sunday? 10:53, November 15, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Sunday is fairly flexible for me. I've got projects to work on so I'll be glued to the computer anyway. If you want to set a time to guarentee things, then you're free to. Ideally some time in the evening for you so I don't have to get up early.

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 05:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm open from 19:00 to 23:00 UTC. 20:59, November 17, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

The Second Chat (fail)
Thank you for bailing on me. I spent a good two hours waiting. 21:30, December 2, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

It wasn't deliberate, I had plans that were supposed to have wrapped up by then, to make a long story short, I couldn't have ditched without leaving a friend up to dry. I would have apologized already but since I didn't see any notice of this saturday and I had hoped that messages might have been crossed and you thought I meant this friday. I really did try to make it and I feel bad you ended up waiting on a blank screen.

Apologies,

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 13:56, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Meh, no problem; it wasn't like it displaced lots of high-priority stuff, so it's ok. 20:45, December 5, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ég hata brettið málsbókar XP 00:27, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Níl a fhios agat aon fhocaíl de íoslainnis

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 01:09, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Ég veit einhvert orðin íslensku en ekkana írsku :P P.S. Google-Translate auðnast enska íslensku ekki. 13:36, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ní Google a rá cad "brettið málsbókar" ciallaíonn. Cad is "pallet case book"? Sílim go bhfuil sé na focaíl mícheart. Níl agam ach beagáinín Gaeigle ach deir said is fearr Gaeilge briste, na Bearla cliste agus go bhfuil aon rud gan iarracht.

(Évidémente Google déteste l'irlandais aussitôt que l'islandais parce qu'il me semble que toute chose là est correcte grammaticalement. La dernière phrase, donc que Google avait la moitié de difficulté, est fait des clichés irlandais. "Je parle seulement un peu mais c'est meilleur un peu d'irlandais que tous les bons mots anglais et rien vient sans effort")

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 15:43, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh. Google fails magnificently. I said "I hate the forum / the board of the Language wiki (language-book, for lack of a better term)", whereas you responded with translatable Irish, to which I responded with "I know some words of Icelandic but nothing of Irish; P.S. Google-Translate isn't able to translate Icelandic to English". It seems to be that it doesn't recognise the word class of "enska", which in this case is a verb that means "translate into English". 16:25, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Google translate and the forums are both pretty spiteful, personally, I suspect they are in league against us good, honest, procrastinating Internauts. Communists are probably invovled somewhere. Also Area 51, NATO and lolcats.

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 17:37, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I got the forum to work - it has all the fancy thing normal forums have - shows you unread topics, you can edit posts, delete posts, admins can delete topics, but everyone in general can also delete everyone else's posts :D 17:47, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

That is so much better looking. I'll see what I can do to keep the progress up. We might restart the featured language thing relatively soon with any luck.But for now, last minute citations and essays go leor!

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 17:56, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

It seems that fortune, contrary to common knowledge, does not indeed favour the bold - Wikia has decided to mock my labour. 18:20, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Vote
We're still waiting, mr. Faux :| 13:12, December 26, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

It's been nearly a month - I think I shall stop voting soon. 16:42, January 20, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Nice to see you again
I was wondering where you had gone, I figured you were busy on another wiki (are you mainly on Linguifex, or have you mostly switched to another conlang wiki?). I keep tearing down Behru and rebuilding it  again, and I've expanded the conworld for my conlangs greatly, and added a few more, like Lokhor, but I'm not decisive enough to finish them. Have you started on any new conlanging projects, or are you still working on Fen mostly?

Greatbuddha (talk) 00:47, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Collaborative conlang
I'd say the best way to make an extremely complex language out of those 3 languages is take

- a mixture of tibetan and chinese phonology (quechua is pretty boring in this respect)

-Quechua morphology

-Tibetan ablaut

If you want the language to feel really complex, you're going to have to come up with a complex morpho-phonology (just because quechua verbs are really long doesn't mean they're hard to construct, there is almost no contraction or interaction between parts. Wayllu-y+nkichis=wayllunkichis, pretty easy. Eskimo and Navajo are good inspirations when you add ineq+t in kalaalisut, it equals iniit, if you want to say "we play" in navajo, you can't just add up the parts to get "nadaiidné", you've got to know all the rules and exceptions to get "ndeii'né". And god help you if you want to say "we played", you've got to ablaut the stem (and no help predicting how you do that, there's about 50 different routes a verb stem can take), Aaand there's new subject prefixes in the perfect tense, which change according to the verb's classifier and randomly assigned conjugation clas, to give you ndasii'ne' (not nadasiidne').

My advice on how to make a good polylang (the method I'm using to design metin, which I will demonstrate

Start with a fairly analytical language (like Chinese) (I'd keep verbs that conjugate for subject in there if you don't easy to pick apart verb endings)

1. Have the verbs develop a really strict word order of pronouns, adverbs, and auxillary verbs around them, and make it so these pronouns always must be explicitely stated (this has already happened in romance languages, think French "je ne m'y suis pas promené", this is considered an early polysynthetic-stage construction. If you want to get things really funky, have a different word order for relative clauses or past tense (like in Hindi), then, the future verb template will change depending on the tense and clause position (ojibwe does this.). Nonconcantenative pronoun systems are also fun

For example, Italian past tense verbs mark the person of the subject in two places (pronoun and auxillary verb) number in three places (pronoun, auxillary verb and past participle) and gender in one place (past participle). Man, in 5000 years, Italian is going to be a NIGHTMARE for foreign language learners if they keep that up. Ojibwe does this too, person and number (of subject AND object) tense, mood, and clause type are all marked in one giant circumfix, and an ojibwe speaker has to know over a thousand mostly paternless verb beginnnings and endings (they're circumfixes) to use the average intransitive verb properly. And it gets better, too, the verb stems undergo ablaut and the final consonant contracts with the endings in ways which make no fucking sense (the contractions have nothing to do with sandhi, two verb endings which both begin with "gi" contract differently for no reason I can figure. Annoying shit like this is a given in most North American languages.

2. Contract with sound changes (and make them pretty drastic, the best way to get polysynthetic languages is to have very destructive sound changes (like in Chinese, allthough I find Hawaiian a much better option), which force the speakers to make compound words to make distinctions). Mix these sound changes simultaneously with rapid grammar changes, like switching from head initial to head final, going from SOV to VOS, developing a Bantu-eque nounclass system along the way

The process illustrated with Metin

Late central Lokhor

lò káá é hánlá óìr èè thúú

I-Pilot past-tense transitive fly  that(invisible) to  plane

I flew to that plane

lò (first person inflection is a preverb that roughly means "to pilot". Preverbs are a group of 50ish verbs that conjugate for person and number. They are paired with uninflecting verb stems to make full verbs. "lò-hánlá" means " I pilot-fly", translating to just "fly". lá hánlá means "he/she flies". lá phúùnó means "he/she drives (a car)", lá, is used mostly with verbs that involve piloting, as one would guess.

káá is the past tense particle

é is the argument marker, indicating the sentence is transitive

óìr is a demonstrative turned article

èè is a preposition meaning "to"

thúú means "plane"

Proto Metin

lëkaihènlè-oir-yaelka yaelkèdhuu "I flew to that plane"

as opposed to

lèkaihènlè... "he/she flew"

louhonlo "I fly"

laihènlè "he/she flies"

lokouhaenlè "that I flew" (relative clauses use different stress pattern)

laekaihaenlè "that he/she flew"

lëihaenlè "that I fly

leehaenlè "that he/she flies"

Vowel tone has been lost and a vowel shift has happened, now vowels hold stress rather than tone. Unstressed vowels are subject to progressive labial-palatal vowel harmony. "ka-ee" has contracted to kai, among other things. Because so many homonyms were produced at the loss of tones (most lokhor nouns were only one syllable), all nouns now come with a generic "prefix-noun" to eliminate ambiguity. "thuu", which could have meant airplane or treebranch now comes with the generic noun "yaelk" which means "machine", thus, the word "yaelkthuu" literally means machine-plane. Yaelk is also suffixed to verbs, in the accusative "yaelka", which states again roughly the identity of the object. The definite article "oir" now comes before the verb suffix noun rather than the free-standing one (this may seem redundant but it happens in most bantu languages so it's not unrealistic.) If you noticed, the preposition "èè" got sandwiched between two nouns in the chaos.

Post koryo split Metin

lëkaihei'n'eOre'q yèqèdhuu

I flew to that (invisible) plane

lohou'n'oOre'q

I fly

lokoohai'n'eOre'q

That I flew

lëihai'n'eOre'q

That I fly

leehe'n'eOre'q

He/she flies

leehai'n'eOre'q

that he/she flies.

The biggest changes that have happened is the serious degredation of final consonants

contraction of dipthongs

contraction of prefixes

weird sound changes caused by r, l, and palatal consonants.

The vowels marked in CAPS are rhotically articulated, the tongue is held pointing up in articulations

the sounds marked in a'p'o's't'r'o'p'h'e's' are subdental-laterally articulated, there are articulated with the tongue held at the base of the bottom teeth with the center of the tongue pushed upwards to the alveolar ridge(done properly this tongue-stuffing visibly deforms the teeth). these sounds are very alien to the English ear and do not occur in any natrual language known, despite being fairly easy to produce and distinguish.

As you can see, a couple of sound changes and that verb system has gone from analytical to one complex motherfucker, and the nouns have done similar.

Oh, and also, you doubt your ability with analytic languages too much, Fen ghir is a superb example of a complex yet mostly analytical language. I don't do analytical languages too much because I find them too boring, even though Hawaiian is one of my most favorite languages, go figure.

Greatbuddha (talk) 03:35, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd be willing to do a collaborative conlang. For erailh, we could easily work together, Quechua-esque conlangs aren't that difficult once you get to know them.

Decisions we will have to make

-Head initial or head final? Both Quechua and Tibetan are head-final, but most of the simpler polysynthetic languages I know are head-final, so maybe we could change that up?

-Phonology-tibean and Quechua do not mesh very well in this regard.

Greatbuddha (talk) 17:14, July 26, 2013 (UTC)