User talk:Askadia

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Conlang! Thanks for your edit to the Haemiş page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- EmperorZelos (Talk) 2010-08-16T11:16:06

For help please visit Conlang Guide or at my talk page to ask!

You may also visit Contionary for ideas for words

Helping
I am taking a stab adn say you're the one who dropped a message on my page eh?

The Emperor Zelos 07:47, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

I hope you are aware of multiple wrongs in your article when it comes to grammar.

The Emperor Zelos 08:03, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'm new to wikis and I do not know yet how to leave messages on discussion pages. Anyway, what kind of mystakes I did?

(P.S. You can delete the article about Haemis, it's the same as Language of the Valley I'm working on right now, but Haemis is about 1 year ago.)

oh really? I got a message from someone with little knowledge about linguistics on my page the other day, it was an IP adress and it had been active on your conlang.

well first of I suggest you use ~ whenever you type a message it will add your signature to the message.

The first one I can say is that Verbal Adjective/Participle you have put Active as a noun meaning the doer of the verb, but participles are adjectives alone and active participle means as in english the -ing form, as when you say "the walking man", its an adjective describing the noun as the performer of the verb

The Emperor Zelos 08:19, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Good, so my message did arrive! I wasn't sure you got it, cuz when I published, I wasn't able to find it XD.

Yup, verbal abjective and participle aren't really the right categories. I just pasted/copied all that from my MS Word stabs and I'm trying to translate them in a good English from Italian. However in Italian the word "cantante" (singer) is obviously a noun, but comes from "cantare" (to sing) and has the same form of the active participle (active: "cantante" = that singing / passive: "cantato" = that singed). Again, "presidente" (noun, president) comes from "presiedere" (to preside): the active participle of the verb is "presidente" (that is presiding) and the passive participle is "presieduto" (that presided). Linguisticly, i can assume that some languages can form/build their noun agents (English -er form: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_noun) and noun patient (English -ed form) from the participles.

As per the verbal abjective, I'm not sure about its english name. In Italian i call them "aggettivo verbale". I'm refering to them as per the Japanese adjective i-ending that acts like verbs. If you know a better name, I'm glad to change it.

Askadia 08:44, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

It did arrive and I suggest you look up on SOV languages and Tripartite as you dont seem to know about those too well. I have made careful choices on all of it and quite frankly in many ways my language is a highly typical SOV Tripartite language

they can form it from the participle or even have the participle form and agent form being one and the same but linguisticly they are quite different.

Name for what exacly?

Lingua Franca
The Emperor Zelos 09:37, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

About Tripatite: the choise mostly depends on what kind of language you want to build. If your intention is to make an uncommon/alien/magical/fantasy language, it's OK. I'm not saying that is wrong. Nothing could be wrong in a fictionally background. But among 5.000 natural languages all over the Word, just 10 or less are full-working tripartite, that's why I just wondered you did that choise.

About my language: since my language treats gerund, gerundive and participle in a different way (such as using aspect instead of mood), I think that calling that grammatical phenomenon as participle doesn't generate misunderstanding.

Askadia 10:34, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

The reason I did that choice? there are a few and Id be happy to tell you I would suggest you do like this, your conlang can refer to it as the same phenomena but when describing in english you write it in exact accordance to how linguistics do to ensure people wont nag about htat and with near 100% certainty not cause confussion
 * 1) I picked it because to me it seemed more reasonble than what we have
 * 2) I liked the fact that its foreign to most people (I htink one of the big languages in the world is Tripartite, hindi if im not mistaken or some version of it I know for sure) and wanted to have it as the dominant lingua franca in my world I am working on just to add some oddity, wierdness yet be within the realm of realism.

The Emperor Zelos 11:53, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

are those answers satesfying to you?

The Emperor Zelos 09:15, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

1° point: it's opinable, but it's your opinion, so ok. Nothing wrong with that.

2° point: uhm ... let's see: Another lingua franca such as Bahasa Indonesia, it is a sort of mix and semplification of the 17.000 tongues spoken in that archipelago (1 language, dialect or local speech in each isle)
 * 1) "foreign-ity", oddity and wierdness: a sense of "alienity" is good, in my little opinion, pushing a conlang into different directions than natural lang. is ok, gives it a sort of "personality".
 * 2) Lingua Franca: that's a little bit harder. As i can see (but I could be wrong), Umbrean treats lots, thousands of linguistic phenomena under grammatical rules. But the role of a Lingua Franca is to be easier. Let's take English for exemple: it's a widely-used lingua franca all over the word, but - as you know - it comes from germanic branch of indo-eupean group. What's surprising in English? No cases, no verb inflections (just -s, -ed or -ing forms), no noun genders (a part from the natural genders). It uses synthactial forms for many things ("i am about to " instead of codifying them into some verbal voice/mood), that's made English easy. With "may" or "can" (and their derivations such as might and could), English gives you an all-in-one instrument to express possibility, probability, request and different grade of politeness ("may i get it?" is more polited than "can i get it?"). Umbrean gramatically codifies each of them and that generates a HUGE amount of rules and forms, plus each Umbrean gender has its own flection.

!BUT! If other languages in your world are more complex, articulated than Umbrean and it's the resulting semplification of them... so, it's ok.

For exemple, in my world, my language is created by Elf. So I thought "How an Elf could perceive the world?". In my opinion and immortal Elf doesn't care about Time. Who cares if an action is done before, yesterday, 1 week ago or 3.000 years ago? The more important thing for and Elf is "is this action complete/done? It has yet to become? Or is it still continuing!?". Then that Elf people didn't develop verbal tences. They simply don't need. Instead, they widely use verbal aspects, more useful for their immortal nature.

Does Umbrean people really and strictly need the richness of the language? Uhm... I don't really know. In the other hand, you are the God in your world and things can be different there! A more scientific culture obviously requires a more detailed language. So, yes, everything is possible.

All this are just my mere opinions and I really like to share opinions with you.

Oh, i forgot to say that you named "gender" (animate, inanimate, mechanic etc...) something that is more similar to "class". The difference between gender and class is so thin that sometimes are missunderstood. But gender often includes masculinity and femininity (plus eventaul neuter = nor masculine or feminine). In othe situations, it's better to talk about "classes" (i.e. look for Bantu in wikipedia). ((( grrrr, i always forget to sign))) Askadia 10:29, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Askadia 10:16, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

You are slightly wrong, sure a Lingua franca that is constructed is best done to be simpler but a lingua franca doesnt have to be easier, in the old days lingua franca in the academic world was latin, which was far more complex than any other in europe at that time. French was it politicly and so on.

In my world umbrean is the lingua franca for the same reason english is, their expansion of colonies and political interactions have made it so alot know their language even if its equal or worse than other languages and hence it is the lingua franca.

and gender/noun class are interchangable, there is no meaning differens really.

But I do enjoy that you are comming with these things, this discussion is quite more pleasent than the first message I recieved

The Emperor Zelos 12:17, September 25, 2011 (UTC)