User talk:Elector Dark/1

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Conlang! Thanks for your edit to the Kti page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- EmperorZelos (Talk) 2010-05-02T17:11:07

For help please visit Conlang Guide or at my talk page to ask!

You may also visit Contionary for ideas for words

Easier communication
Got MSN or similar? The Emperor Zelos 20:49, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Phonotactics
Dont go "K can'tbe before T" etc, it looks rather bad, you should use collective restrictions, for example english have voiced fricatives cant be before l in the begining of a word. hence vladmir is improper, zlad is too etc. Use groups rather than individual letters mostly (of course a few letters being unique/sounds is ok) The Emperor Zelos 12:50, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * About MSN, it doesn't work on Windows 7.


 * "Sh can't be next to S", I use it instead of "Fricative can't be next to a fricative", since I have three fricatives (S, Sh and H), but I use "S can't be next to another fricative".


 * Good example concerning voiced fricatives, but if I imply collective/grouped restrictions, I'd restrict the entire fricative (for example) group, which has three consonants, or nasal group which has two consonants, or the entire six-vowel group.Rostov-na-don 16:59, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * the later is still better saying "fricative next to fricative is forbidden" than "sh cant be next to s" it looks unproffesional and bad, if you write the first and give the later as an example is fine thoguh. and it is so in languages things are restricted in groups not nidividual cases
 * I've adapted your suggestion to suit my language better.Rostov-na-don 17:47, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've adapted your suggestion to suit my language better.Rostov-na-don 17:47, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

thats good, may I ask what you found most intersting in umbrean? and why is it your conlang have so few sounds?


 * In Umbrean, I really like your innovative (and quite amusing) noun declension, expecially your usage of cases (a strange combination, indeed). About the few sounds,the less there are, the smoother it is pronounced, and concidering Kti is a derivationally synthetic (like German), I think that 37 consonants and 8 vowels would make it a mess :| And adding stuff because it is w00tiszh r0xx0rz 1337 4wsum would make it a KSL


 * Note, I've been influenced by Hungarian, German, Russian, Serbian, Tsez and Turkish


 * What is so innovative about it? and as for cases, i picked them because i wanted grammatical cases rather than adpositional (those replacable by adpositions), i dont like few sounds because the amount of sounds needed to say unique words increases rapidly, with 8 vowels and 37 consonants in a (C)V construct you got 296 words, with 7/8 you only get 56 The Emperor Zelos 22:45, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, still you didn't take into account the initial syllable rules :) About the adpositions, I have no adpositions nor participles, mood, voices, tenses or aspects, yet the system can('t ?) function properly Rostov-na-don 22:52, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * and again whats so innovative?
 * wait if you lack that how is ANY information put fourth?
 * with so little stuff that language must be young and talked by barbarians The Emperor Zelos 23:12, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still prone to development ;) And you don't really need tenses or some other stuff there, it's expressable via auxillary verbs, p/articles, gerunds, pre/suffixes. Rostov-na-don 00:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * you said you didnt have those things i assumed then that you didnt ahve ANYWAY to tell them The Emperor Zelos 07:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant using all those things, you can express the information without the tenses, moods, definitiveness and aspects :)
 * Take Serbian, for exampleRostov-na-don 21:49, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am confused at what you are going at The Emperor Zelos 22:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You needn't have "I will have been going" if you have a slightly simpler system to compensate Rostov-na-don 22:43, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, all those thigns yes The Emperor Zelos 08:03, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * You needn't have "I will have been going" if you have a slightly simpler system to compensate Rostov-na-don 22:43, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, all those thigns yes The Emperor Zelos 08:03, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, all those thigns yes The Emperor Zelos 08:03, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Progress
how si it going? The Emperor Zelos 13:21, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

very good :) I am doing punctuation and tenses, but later will go to case :) Rostov-na-don 15:10, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Remarking Out
If you don't like something in other people's articles, use discussion pages to express your opinion, but don't make parts of the articles you dislike disappear — it looks like vandalism. — Hellerick 15:15, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I use the same technique as Zelos, tell him that he looks like a vandal :P

Think of me as an engineer, maintaining the languages and making them fairly readable. Rostov-na-don 15:42, July 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mr. Engineer, if you can improve articles — do it. But stop making them look worse: don't remove text, don't leave your comments. Use discussion pages, for goodness sake.
 * As for Rozumio, this page was created for a particular discussion that took place on one of the forums and gives all the necessary information for the people who participated in the discussion. It never was intended to be comprehensible for "strangers", and I have no desire to include superfluous information. — Hellerick [[Image:Flag of Divnogorsk.svg|20px]] 15:52, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am improving articles by making them more aesthetically pleasing and viewer-friendly, and how the hell can a Javanese speaker perfectly correctly pronounce all the sounds if it says 'f as in fart' ? Rostov-na-don 15:56, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You make the phonetic sections not visible at all. How it can help "a Javanese speaker"? — Hellerick [[Image:Flag of Divnogorsk.svg|20px]] 16:44, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't delete them, I make them comments. It helps a 'Javanese speaker' that knows IPA read IPA symbols Rostov-na-don 16:47, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Put the farting comments on the talk page. You ruin perfectly good pages and make them look bad. If you speak Javanese, go on the farting Javanese conlang site. —Detectivekenny; (Info) Preceding text certified by R. Xun as of 17:10, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't speak Javanese, but if the person isn't bilingual with English and Serbo-Croatian you expect him to know how to pronounce the sounds of the language? Rostov-na-don 17:17, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't really care. If a Serbo-Croatian person really wanted to learn the language, he should contact the author. What I get mad at is when I wanna show my friends "hey," look at my language and there's a big fat void where the pronunciation key used to be. It's displeasing, and you shouldn't make authors do more work, especially ones with multiple languages. Please put any comments on the discussion, because a lot of these languages are sacred and ancient with forgotten authors, and they have no control over their languages anymore, and now everyone has to look at the ugliness or go back into history to get a general idea of how "czh" is pronounced. —Detectivekenny; (Info) Preceding text certified by R. Xun as of 19:55, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * As much as I do hate "X as in Y" things I must agree with DK, they are very old, authors dont do much anymore hence I never btoher with old conlangs and leave them be. New ones are a different matter The Emperor Zelos 20:33, July 26, 2010 (UTC)\
 * I'm not Serbo-Croatian :P Rostov-na-don 20:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Rostov, what are you doing?
You seem to go through lots of language pages, adding your comments directly to them.

This is definitely not the way it's done. Do not mess other people's pages! Please use the talk pages, and let the language authors decide.

Adagio burner 20:25, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

For the last two messages
Fine, do whatever you want Rostov-na-don 21:01, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Great, I have reverted your changes to other poeple's pages.

Again, friendly suggestions are always welcome, but you should not act in a destructive manner, and you should not dictate other people how to build their conlangs. This is basic wiki etiquette. Thanks! Adagio burner 23:40, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, when I think of it, I can do the IPA myself if wanted Rostov-na-don 11:35, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

In response to your messge
Hello Rostov-na-don,

I am responding to your message on my talk page in which you were asking me to look at your conlang and give you deeback, especially in relation to the reasons as to why you have not recieved any "'pro"points for your language. Being the likebale fellow that I am, I read your conlang page quite thoroughly (twice to be exact over about an hour or so) and I'm happy to give you feedback thoguh i implore you not take it the wrong way.

In relation to your conlang, I think it has a well developed Pronoun (Interesting, I haven't seen many languages with this approach before) as well as a well developed Case system. So Kudos to you.

However I think your section on Punctuation is utterly pointless 1) because I did not see any difference from that of the English Punctuation system, 2) Most of us on this site already have enough knowledge about Linguistics to know all the things you stated in your Punctuation section, thus making it completely redundant, and anyone who doesn't know this information clearly should not be developing a conlang.

You have done some decent work on your conlang so you should be happy, alas here is the problem. It was good, but not great. I think you should tidy up your page and make it more organised (perhaps like Zelos' or mine, though this is up to you). Such organisation will not only make your language more aesthetically pleasing but also easier to read and understand as well as providing a better layout for future work (having an organised and constructed set out makes doing more work in the future much easier, trust me on this point).

Your conlang is good, however nothing "jumps" out at me to make it especially unique, I'm sorry. I think you should organise your page a bit more and continue with your work and you will get there in time. Constructing a good conlang is long and difficult process, constructing a great one is a very long and arduous task which many people fail to do. Patience is the key to success and I believe you have good groundwork so keep working and you will achieve it in the end. One very important point which I would like to stress is this; Make your conlang so that you are happy and it pleases you. If you worry about and only strive to construct a conlang purely to win "pro" points in a voting contest on a wiki such as this, your conlang will go nowehere and you will fail. Do not worry about being featured and recieveing pro points, focus on creating a conlag that you love and enjoy working on and the rest will follow, of course if it doesn't then this doesn't matter because you will love your language and be proud, and this is the main point.

Cheers and I wish you luck.

vii.

Excuse me, but I think you have misunderstood me, I didn't make it to get attention, nor did I ask you how to get positive points, I asked you why has it been ignored, overlooked. I admit that punctuation can be pointless, but still it is a vital part of the language. If you use the "Random Page" button enough, you can easily list 20 lanages that have been misspelled, with no basic punctuation and no capital letters.

Thanks for the opinion Rostov-na-don 12:25, August 25, 2010 (UTC)