User talk:Elector Dark

=Talk Page=

Please, put only constructive comments here. No spamming and no logical fallacies. 13:44, July 6, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Sup
Heh I didn't even know there were other people on this wiki but looking at your contrib history there is apparently drama all over. Incidentally, I don't have yahoo instant messenger. Hyenaste 00:24, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Eh, there's drama all right :D Uh, I don't know, do you have MSN? Hah, or any other IM, or Gmail? I don't know, perhaps, we can help each other out :D 12:32, July 27, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 


 * The only instant messengers I have are private. Not to be aloof or anything, that's just how I keep it. But what kind of help are you offering? Hyenaste 10:08, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't mind (I understand, too); I'm offering you a chat buddy for (con)linguistics, and, eventually, something more. I can't really discuss it with you on the wiki. If you want to know what I'm really offering, contact me at "darkgamma @ rocketmail . com", or "lennsridarin @ gmail . com" and I'll tell you the full extent :D Just let me tell you, consider it, and if you don't like, I'll understand and won't push. 10:20, July 28, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 


 * I emailed the first one. Curiosity got the best of me. Hyenaste 20:25, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Helios
Yeah I remember you. Do you use the conlang wikia.

I'm the favourite for the guy who's going to run it. Primarily, I suggest you begin signing yourself with " ~ " without the quotations. 22:31, September 1, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Wiki Adminship Votes <= You might want to check it out. 22:51, September 1, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Favourite is going a bit too far... But I always glad to see new members! non nobis solvm 10:00, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Is it going too far? Well, to calculate how much better my tally looks when compared to yours, I'd have to redefine mathematics! 10:19, September 2, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Aelatha and Formatting
You left a mesage about the difference on the sites with the formatting. (I replied to what you said on my page). I do have a separate question though. I had just starting moving m pages here as the other conlang.wikkii site went down. It's still down. Do you have any idea what's going on there? (I'm only assuming you use both sites too since you knew some of the differences in formatting). --TheWrittenWord (talk) 13:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I've stopped using it after my fall-out with the administration and I have since started my own quest for adminship here, so, yeah, I'd know a thing or two. On Wikkii, I know it crashed two days ago; the whole Wikkii network, not just Conlang. It's an internal error, and I think it's a SQL injection + DDoS to stop it from getting up for some time. They've managed to fix the DDoS, as MediaWiki attempts to load, but the code's mangled. It's happened a few times in the last several months, but this one's the biggest. Or it's them updating 14:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Aaah. So that's what happened. I'd hear that (this) wiki had been having problems for a few months in which I was away, but never anything so specific. Thanks for the information. I'm tempted to ask what this falling out was about but maybe it's better to just leave the conversation at that. Anyway, thanks again. I hope they're able to fix this. --TheWrittenWord (talk) 21:39, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

They've fixed it. Apparently, the one who did it didn't do it well enough for it to stick. 21:46, September 15, 2012 (UTC) ~)  The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 

Rosetta Stone
I know the wikia is slow but I think the hidden forums aren't overly helpful. I'm not sure what wiki walk I followed to get there but I stumbled on the Rosetta stone page and saw some people had replied with interest to the idea of a Rosetta Stone and I've since made another post there, though it's hard to stumble on.

I think a Rosetta Stone would give the wiki a sense of unity and a first translation challenge for every conlang. At very least it's worth some consideration.

http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Rosetta_stone

All the best,

Fauxlosophe (talk) 02:13, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'd actually like to discuss the Rosetta stone with you. 20:28, November 1, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

I'm not really available tonight but I would be able to arrange for some time over the weekend [Saturday/Sunday] with a good bit of flexibility.

Fauxlosophe (talk) 01:44, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Saturday at 22:00 to 24:00, if you'd like. Saturday at about the same time. 10:20, November 2, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

GMT, I assume? That works for me.

Fauxlosophe (talk) 13:42, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Audio
I think you mentioned an audio feature being added but I can't see any. I have a few short wmv recordings of the language on my laptop but have no idea if/how I can put them on the wikia.

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 08:46, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

If you convert them to .ogg I think you can upload and embed them :)  Pá mamūnám ontā́ bán  11:45, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Friday Chat
If you are free Friday night, I'd mediate you and PMOB having one last go at working things out. Sorry for the short notice but I've been buried under work. Still am honestly, this is more just procrastinating which I shouldn't really do doing.

--Fauxlosophe (talk) 21:34, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

What doesn't kill me only maims me further. Sure. 09:44, November 30, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Forum
Hey, I realized that I don't know how to start new topics on the forum. I created one a while ago but it doesn't show up on the boards and I accidently turned it into a "Forum: Talk Page" which didn't really do anything more. I'm really not going to be free until after the 15th in such a way as to be able to promise a proper scheduled chat [You've seen what came of my last attempt of that] due to exams and hecticness of the holiday season in general [again, apologies], but once I'm free, it would probably be wise to sit down and discuss how to reform them as well as start some discussion in the topics. I'd be happy to inform Buddha and some of the other active users personally and I feel we might get some discussion going like that if we are able to come up with interesting enough topics.

All the Best,

-Fauxlosophe (talk) 17:28, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Waait a mo…
Wait, wait. Are you the person formerly known as Bluegamma? :o ~ Billy J.B(talk) 15:30, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I was known as Rostov-na-don, mind you :D 16:19, December 7, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

That little chart on the first page
Hello Elector Dark, I am new to the site and I want to edit that small chart on the first page of my language. How do I do that? Or does it update automatically as you input information?

Thanks. StillDeciding (talk) 01:01, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

The progress chart fills itself out automatically once you input numbers into it. I'd also like you to link to your conlang so that I could give you a very specific example :D 10:03, December 9, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate


 * I was actually reffering to the chart that said "Type, Alighnment, Head Direction, etc," but my bad for not making that clear enough. Here's my page: Evrital Thanks again :) StillDeciding (talk) 17:49, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * You'll need to fill that one out yourself, too. All the fields after "Head" require a yes/no for an answer, just so you know. 19:58, December 9, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

First Time
Hello, I was interested in making a language for a fictional nation I was working, and needed some help in knowing what kind of things would be needed to do so. The language was called Xiani, and was to include "x" as a letter in pretty much all of the words. Some examples of what I planned to do included; 'xo and 'xa as gender indicators (for names- Xesha'xa for example), 'xi possibly for neuter words. Some words such as Ixania (nation) and Xanza (capital), so you know where I was going with it. I hope this makes sense to you, but I was hoping you could pass a few tips that I could use to make the language work. I should warn you, I have little to no idea the complexities behind lingustics mind you. Sorry. Though I am willing to learn what is needed to create the language. :)

And sorry again if this sounds like gibberish. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 21:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry about gibberish ;) Well, to make a language, you need some basics. First, write down your basic ideas, then read Zompist's wonderful "Language Construction Kit that describes the basics of language creation. That should help with the basics, at least. If you have anything more you'd like to know, you're free to ask me, and I'll write a mini-article on it, hopefully describing and explaining what you need :) 23:59, December 23, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 23:59, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I already wrote down some names and titles, as well as gender modifiers. So I hope to have something soon. :) Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:08, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Of course, no problem :D Merry Christmas. 19:17, December 24, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Hey, I read through that language kit, and got a good idea of the makeup of languages, but I'm still unclear as where to start off in making one. Any idea what I should do first? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:41, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! Well, your first should be the sounds of the language (also known as phonology and phonotactics), then you should move on to the grammar, and after you have something on the grammar of the language, you should start making words. 10:39, December 30, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Awesome. Thanks! Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 05:47, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Of course, not a problem :) If you need anything else, don't be afraid to ask; I'm here most of the time :D 13:20, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Hey, could you take a look at my language's phonology and tell me if it makes any sense? No idea what I'm doing. I'm just adding sounds that I like to the graph. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 20:54, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in short, it doesn't quite make much sense ;) Hellerick's message is spot-on, but I'll be more specific: "m"  and "n"  are not stops, but rather nasals - sounds such as "p", "t", "k", "q" are stops, not "m" and "n". Your alveolar fricatives make little sense - what is this "x", "ks"? In that case it isn't an alveolar fricative. "s" is alveolar, not postalveolar, and "t͡ʃ" is postalveolar rather than palatal. If by "ɲ" you meant the Spanish ñ, then it's palatal rather than retroflex. Retroflex sounds are things such as English "r" (actually /ɻ/, not /r/). You should also write "e" and "o" as mid rather than close mid due to their actual realisation. If you need anything else, I'm here :D 17:05, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Great. Thank you very much for the help. :D Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:31, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem ;) 17:40, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Okay, I made some changes to it. Look better? Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:41, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

I've changed it a bit too. You kind of missed the point, I guess. You should look up the IPA chart on Wikipedia and study the arrangement of the cells. The first row indicates where the sound is made (all of /p b m/ are bilabial, made by both lips, while /k/ is velar and /q/ is uvular), and the first column how the sound is made (so /m n/ are nasals, made by the nose, while /p t k q/ are stops, made by stopping the airflow and letting go of it - /f v s z x h/ are fricatives, something between approximants and stops, sounds that make friction but don't stop the airflow). The IPA chart on Wikipedia has almost everything you'll need for now, and doesn't include some things you might need in a few years' time :P As I said, if you need anything, don't hesitate to ask ;) 17:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks. Oddly enough, I was using Wikipedia to see where to place the consanants in the grid. Thanks for rearranging the letters though. I feel as if my language will not turn out as I had hoped. :/ Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 17:57, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, your language will never turn out exactly as good as you hope or want - I learned that the hard way. If you check out Kti, my language, and look at its history, you'll see that it's my first language here (and indeed, first language I've ever come to make), and I'm still developing it. It used to be much worse than it is now, and over time I changed it, added some things and removed others (well, I mostly added rather than removed, but whatever xD ) and I think I'm on the right track, after something less than three years of work :] 18:01, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Wow. This lingustics stuff may be a bit too much for me then. I really don't understand who you and the others here can produce well-detailed languages without you heads' exploding. I look at them and have to stop reading just because there's too much to take in. I gotta say I've earned a whole new respect for you all. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:05, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Trust me, it looked like that to me at first too, but then I slowly learned from my mistakes ;) Your best bet on how to learn is probably from experience, I guess, or even from stuff on Wikipedia, but that might not cut it. I mean, if you want, we can chat with each other by an IM or even by mail. What say you? 18:07, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

I can do that. Why not? :P Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:20, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Do you have either Gmail or Ymail? For the first one, contact [mailto:lennsridarin@gmail.com lennsridarin@gmail.com], for the other go with [mailto:cryptia@rocketmail.com cryptia@rocketmail.com] - I regularly check both mails, and both companies provide good IM service :D 18:23, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Sorry for the wait. I have Live. Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:56, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Hm. That might take a few minutes to set up - you're the one who has to wait now :D 18:58, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

[mailto:darkgamma@outlook.com darkgamma@outlook.com] - all ready :D 19:16, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Sorry for the wait. Here's my email: corporate1@live.com I look forward to working with you. :) Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 01:57, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Sent you a mail since I don't seem to be competent enough to do anything else :P 12:05, January 5, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Hallo! Why did you delete my page "Newconlang"... there was a project there, just I haven't already given a name for that language... :( Naju (talk) 19:59, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Eh, sorry - I thought that... IDK. I'll restore it, but you should rename it ;) 20:49, January 5, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Page removal
I humbly request of thee to remove the Tswedish page from this wiki. Either the author of that page doesn't know what this wiki is for or they are trolling. Greatbuddha (talk) 21:06, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I assumed the same but didn't want to directly meddle. Thanks and shall do. 10:30, January 21, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

allegations of forking
Regarding diff: http://conlang.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ALinguist_Wannabe&diff=79887&oldid=79886


 * Why didn't you say which wiki it was. As it stands, Linguifex is an offshot of this wiki - that is definitely not something allowed by Wikia (moving content to sites that split off of Wikia) :|

Sorry for hopping in but I'd like to correct a misunderstanding. Linguifex is not a fork. It is as much an offshoot of Wikia as Conlang@Wikia is of FrathWiki and Langmaker. It was originally a personal project for reliable, ad-free hosting of my own constructed languages in a MediaWiki format (something which other sites have failed to satisfy). Currently, it has expanded to have several languages by other users - some of which (including myself) - have at one time or another had an account on Conlang@Wikia. This in itself does not make it a fork. You wouldn't call this wiki a fork of wikipedia or frathwiki just because some users have accounts there and contribute, right?

As owner, bureaucrat and ultimately supremely responsible person for Linguifex I formally protest being called a fork of Wikia; this is belittling of all the hard work I and others have put into Linguifex and to be honest quite insulting.

I would appreciate it if any future references to my website do not call it a fork of this place. Thanks. ~ Billy J.B(talk) 22:46, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry but your opinions are trumped by the opinions of Wikia staff. This wiki originated in November 2004 and is the oldest active wiki on Wikia - Frathwiki originated earlier in 2004; I don't see how it could be a fork as the community didn't split off of Frath and came here.

I call your wiki a fork as it is essentially a continuation of the Wikkii fork, thus genetically having the attribute of being a fork. I really don't care about insulting anyone, my interests lie primarily with this wiki. 10:36, January 21, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate


 * Linguifex was independently founded; it was not founded as a continuation of the Wikkii fork. It was founded as a MediaWiki-based host for my conlangs. The original message stated on Linguifex was:


 * The first article content on Linguifex was http://linguifex.com/index.php?title=Misqazan&oldid=22, a copy-paste from a Word document of mine.


 * Somewhere between this and December, I was approached on a third-party website by Waahlis asking if he also could host some of his content on my page. I agreed. He further asked if it were possible to merge the existing content at Wikkii (who was experiencing hosting issues) into Linguifex and bring along some of the administrators. I agreed; "the more the merrier!". Some people from the Wikkii fork have thereon contributed content to Linguifex. At most, there has been an upstream merge of some Wikiii content. So no, we're not a fork. We're more akin to a repository that has accepted an upstream merge request from another project.


 * I would appreciate it if my trademark was not misrepresented by the administration of this website furthermore. That is all. ~ Billy J.B(talk) 18:22, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

I would appreciate if you dropped this, but seems we do not appreciate each other's appreciations anyhow. Let me put it: I do not care too much as to how you see it as people more relevant than you, or even me, see it as a fork. That is, indeed, all. 21:09, January 21, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Deletion
Um, excuse me? Why was T'iksk deleted? (sign yourself!)

Ach, sorry, I sometimes delete the good stuff when dealing with the ancient. 18:52, January 24, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

OK, thanks. Was a bit of a crazy thing to wake up to. Geckat (talk) 18:56, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry - I deleted 76 other pages along with it, so it's a bit embarrasing :P 22:31, January 24, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Where to Start?
Okay, I want to get to work on my language again now. So what would I first begin working on before further delving into my work? I've already got the alphabet down, and a good idea of how I want it to sound (with k's, a's, i's, and x's, lots of sharp stops and the like if you know what I talking about). Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:03, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

The first thing you absolutely need is the exact sounds, that is, the IPA -  as a grapheme can mean /x/, /ʃ/, /ʂ/, /ks/, /xs/, /ħ/ etc. in the IPA. If you have the approximate sound down, you just about know where to look at the very least. Since I assume your tables on Xiani are accurate, you now need the phonotactics of the language - what sounds can go together, what are the biggest and smallest allowed syllables etc. 19:50, February 9, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Awesome, thanks for the advice. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:00, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

A question
What do you call the case that indicates that a noun is possessed, rather than the posessor? Greatbuddha (talk) 23:26, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, simply calling it "Possessed" isn't unheard of - Galina (a Carib language) has such a "possessed" case. 00:13, February 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Request for deletion
Hey, I just found this page, could you please delete it? 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:32, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Thanks for the notification - there are hundreds of such pages and I do my best to delete them (last time around, I deleted 150, and 100 before that) 14:44, March 13, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Help
Ok i supose i should post what i have so far and get your take on it. It is not much by any means but i hope to expand upon it. First Section is Pronouns, the rest are just things i knew i wanted in the race's dictionary if you will.

 He = Gor (Gore)

 Her = Sora (Sore-ah)

 Him = Gora (Gore-ah)

 I = Vind (Vin-duh)

 It = Est (Ehst)

 Me = Vindi (Vin-dee)

 She = Sor   (Sore)

 Them = Lorai (Lore-i)

 They = Lorvo (Lore-vo)

 Us = Lora (Lore-ah)

 We = Lor (Lore)

 You = Yar (Yar)

 Yes = Ka (Kah)

 No = Nor (Nor)

 Combat = Kata

<p class="MsoNormal"> Weapon / Armed = Kinar (Kin-ar)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Unarmed = Tarbo (Tar-bo)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Armed Combat = Kinkata (Kin-ka-ta)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Unarmed Combat = Tarkata (Tar-ka-ta)

<p class="MsoNormal">Snake = Sidar (See-dar)

<p class="MsoNormal">Wolf = Korin (Core-in)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Knowledge = Loburo (Low-bo-row)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Intelligence = Lobogen (Low-bo -gen)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Learn = Lobo (Low-bo)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Mother = Modor (Mo-door)

<p class="MsoNormal"> My / Mine = Mina (Me-na)

<p class="MsoNormal"> Sword = Kry (Cry)

<p class="MsoNormal"> House / Home = Doma (Doe-ma)

Well, first, I'll tell you you'd need some IPA - it tells how the sounds are pronounced exactly, as opposed to the breakdown you gave (the pronunciation might differ across English dialects, you know). Second, I'd reccomend you start with some grammar first, instead of words, but that's your choice. Third, I'd reccomed you sign yourself next time (you do this by ending your post with ~ ) ;) 20:27, March 14, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

You see that is were i am lost T_T i only know how to make the language via cipher (word for word). At most i am divideing words by some meanings. per example.

<p class="MsoNormal">Until (Conjunction: Up to a time / when or before (usually used negatively)) =

<p class="MsoNormal">Until (Preposition: Onward to / until or before (usually used negatively)) =

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Since (Adverb: From a past point to present or between a past point and present) =

<p class="MsoNormal">Since (Preposition: Continuing from a point or between a past point / event and the present) =

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Basically i am an english speaking individual without the basi understanding's of the english language which i imagine makes my endeavor all the more unrealistic. =/

Also here is my race so far as i have them if you fancy to know what my language is going towards.

http://cidiuscistus.deviantart.com/gallery/40370833

Think demons with the viking influence of raiding & slave takeing, with the discipline of the samurai bushido and studious calm minds of shaolin martial arts practioners. Basically a true warrior race. With much more "art" work to be made and finished, as well as culture and ect to be explained. my lifes work so far.

~) CidiusCistus

Ah, that's quite nice X) If you want a start, you should think of all the sounds that occur in the language (and list them, preferrably in the IPA) - a good first grammar addition is gender: make your nouns different if they're thought of as "masculine" or "feminine", and make, say, adjectives agree to them with some suffix that's there if the noun is feminine but isn't if it's masculine! 10:27, March 15, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

uhhh ^_^ ill try? T_T

~) CidiusCistus

Ah, let me give you an example of what I mean! You have the word "kata", right? So, you could think of all feminine nouns ending in "-a" - you refer to "kata" with "sor"; but "sidar" is then a masculine noun, so you use "gor" to refer to it. You have "mina" as in "belonging to me" - why not make it agree with the noun's gender with it's ending?

What I mean is this: You have "mina kata", but "min sidar"! 13:09, March 15, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think i prefer it more without it being gender specific. Mostly because for every male there are 9,999 females on the race's homeworld, which makes it kind of unessasary in my mind.

And i will have to look over the IPA stuff on monday as this weekend i am for a friends home.

But i can say i know what i want the structure to be like. Useing english as the exsample.

instead of "You shouldnt use your word's so harshly"

it would be more like this "You should not be so harsh with your words"

Not to sure if i want to use the "ly"s at all in language, just straight words if you understand my meaning

I would replace conjoined words such as "you're" with "you are"

I want it to be a simple, not too complex language, with a harsh sound to reflect thier lifestyle.

Not sure if any of this really means much or if im just pulling stuff out of my behind =/

~) CidiusCistus

Yeah, I understeand what you mean. If you'd like, I could direct you to a good conlanging resource - Zompist's Language Construction Kit if you're willing to read for a bit; it's really good and the written material is interesting and inspirational, gives you an idea of what you could do. 14:17, March 15, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

I shall loook into it once i return monday, but upon a look it seems interesting if not a bit confuseing :P

~) Cidius Cistus

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Heh, that's true :D 15:36, March 15, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

~)
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

If your willing you may have my MSN so we can communicate better, to accomplish this brain frying endeavor.

Cidius@live.com

~) CidiusCistus

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

26 directional positionals
Are there any other conlangs or natlangs that use diagonal as well as orthagonal directions in their positionals? I've figured out that there are 26 directions one can travel in 45* angles in 3d space for Metin, and how you could extend the positional system to 4 dimensions and beyond, for anyone curious. Greatbuddha (talk) 13:55, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

(Sorry for the rather late response) but I think only Ithkuil does that to any large extent. 09:10, April 2, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

:/
Whelp, after much though, study, and head-banging, I've decided to turn in my coat and punk out. I honestly don't understand how you all do it, but I have to give you a lot of credit. Conlanging just doesn't look like my thing. Thanks for all your help though. :)

In the future however, when I've muscled up enough courage though, I may return to try again. Just so you know, I'm still studing Zompist's language kit to prepare for my possible return. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:06, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Heh, no problem. Some people can get "into" it, some can't. I hope I'll see you again some time in the future, but it's your choice whether we shall meet, of course :D 09:08, April 2, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Full sized image
Any way of making an image displaying full size without going of the side of the page? The cladogram for my Lokhor family isn't legible unless you click on it like three times to see full size.

Greatbuddha (talk) 00:40, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - you only need remove the "thumb" part in the code. I suggest you downsize it a bit, tho - I put it at 700px width, so that it fits the page, but when you click it you'll see it whole. 10:11, April 17, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Inspiration
ED, what languages could I look too for inspiration (aside from Kti which I have been studying for Xiani :P)? I'm looking for something I can draw proper inspiration from for a new language I plan to work on. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 07:31, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Well (aside from Kti xD I'm honoured!) I'd suggest:
 * 1) Novegradian - a Slavic a-posteriori language
 * 2) Siųa - a Uralic-looking a-priori language set around Quebec (my favourite, actually)
 * 3) Ithkuil - of course, a language with as little ambiguity as possible, a-priori, philosophical conlang

All three of these are rather diverse and extremely well documented. There's also some non-conlang things for you to look at, if you'd want:
 * 1) Abui - Papuan language of Alor
 * 2) Old Norse - a North Germanic language
 * 3) Sumerian - a language-isolate of ancient Mesopotamia

Those are some rather good documents. I think I have a few more hiding on my computer, so if you want I could take a peek at more! 22:31, May 7, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks for the leads. If you can provide anymore information, I'd really appreciate the help. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:30, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Here's a few more:
 * 1) Lepcha - a Tibeto-Burman language
 * 2) Dhimal - a Tibeto-Burman language
 * 3) Khwarshi - a Northeastern Caucasian language

17:06, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Excellent. Thanks for all your help. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:47, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome! Need anything else: I'm not that far away ;) ! 22:14, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Could you briefly explain to me what declination, conjugation, and that grammer box are all about? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:08, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ok! Declination is the agreement of nouns, usually to the categories of gender, case, number and other things, while conjugation is the agreement of verbs towards their categories. Both of these are inflections, and you can just as well say "the noun declines in case" as you could say "the noun agrees in case" or "the noun inflects for case". By "grammar box", I assume you mean that grammar template that comes with every new page. It shows whether a certain word class (pronouns, nouns etc.) inflects for the given category (case, person, number etc.) 12:57, May 9, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ah thanks for the explaination. Makes the matter much clearer now. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:45, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome :D 20:21, May 9, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

One final thing. Do you know where I can find a place to learn Esperanto? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:00, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

That one I don't know. I mean, I've never been interested in that kind of conlang, so didn't do much research except the very basics :S 11:15, May 14, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ah no problem. Thanks though. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:09, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Always! 21:42, May 14, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks
Thank you for contributing to a correct classification of my language. Thank you firstly for correcting the mistake I made, and secondly for confirming that this is an active community where the administration keeps a close eye on the content!

BinzNakama (talk) 10:09, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Hey! No problem! I've just added our conversation to a specific headline so it's easier to access. Even if you don't see me editing much as I do most of my work offline, I'm online almost every day except for specific occasions. If you need any help or want an opinion or something, I'm not that far away :D 14:51, May 19, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks²
Thanks for the tip '-_-

MysteryShaft (talk) 18:20, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, no problem! It'll save both you and me from a headache around whatever page might be left behind ;) 23:02, May 29, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Xiani Check
Hey, I made some additions to Xiani, and wanted to know if the diphthongs and phonotactics made any sense. Could I get your opinion? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:22, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Sure! First, <Aachen> wouldn't break your phonotactics as it's not /a.axən/ but /aːxən/, with a long vowel. Now, on to serious business. You might want to change /ia/ to /iæ/ unless you really need it to be /ia/ - languages tend to make features contrast as much as possible, and /iæ/ contrasts better with /io/ than /ia/ does. The triphthongs section isn't needed really, since if you don't have it, you don't need to describe it! Also, your orthography seems to lack a way to write both /ɵ/ and /æ/. I did edit a bit on the syllable section but that was to clear up some ambiguity and fix a typo or two, so hope you don't mind that. According to my above contrast logic, you might want to shift /a/ (don't use /ä/, it's just bad style and Wikipedia needs to be smitten) to /ɑ/ (the same vowel as in ) to contrast it with /æ/ which is already fighting with /e/ for space in the mouth. Also, an IPA-to-Orthography correspondence could help ;) That's about all, the rest seems really nice :D Anything else? 17:27, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thank you very much. I really need this language completed because I'm creating an entire nation (entire culture, history and everything included), and I've been slacking on it. In a perfect world, I'd be more active in learning about phonology. :(

Oh, and about the /ɵ/ and /æ/, how does its not allow for them? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:23, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

No problems! You know, this kind of phonology delves into historical linguistics (diachronics) a bit, so it might seem vague, but think of it as something happening over time and in small increments. You might want to read a few books on phonology, but you don't really need to if you can just ask :D I'd suggest you use the terminology "high-mid-low" instead of "close-mid-open" as that terminology is also a thing on Wikipedia that doesn't match up with practice. I can do it for you (and redesign the vowel talbe along the way) if you'd like.

It was kinda before I noted you didn't have an orthography-to-IPA correspondence given anywhere, so ignore that bit X) 18:34, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Well you know more than I do, so I'll leave everything in your hands then. I did download a book on learning phonology (the big professional kind), and I've been reading it on and off, so I guess I'll focus on reading that before I do anything major. And no worries, I'll seek out your advice on subjects if you every have the free time to do so. :) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:49, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yay! I'll make a sketch for you to evaluate. 18:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thank you! Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

No problems, just don't forget to delete my comment and comment out one of the tables using " " (the one you dislike obviously :P ) 20:18, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

"Super fronted" vowels
would you have any idea what this kind of articulation is called? What you do is you stick the tip of your tounge at the base of the teeth, then curve the rest of the tongue upwards towards the top of the mouth, and attempt to make an /i/ sound while leaving your toungue in that position. It makes you sound like you have a lisp, you can also make a palatal fricative in this position, it sounds like a bee buzzing. I'm considering adding this sound to a conlang, but i don't even know how to ipa it. (Greatbuddha)

Hmm. If I'm getting it right, it should be something like /i̟ˡ/, a fronted lateralised /i/, or even a /iˡ/ with an equals sign <=> under it, which is the alveolarised diacritic. This is, indeed, lumped in the same category as lisping (speech pathology - ExtIPA is made for speech pathology). That is, if I'm getting it right (it does sound like a lisp, and does sound something like a bee buzz with /ʝ/). 21:20, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks! That's exactly what I was thinking of. And I looked up "lateralized consonants" in google and it is a variety of speech pathology. Greatbuddha (talk) 21:45, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

It's a pretty uncommon thing, though. Sounds contrastive enough to be used, too, but, probably like the linguolabials or labiodental nasals, somehow it's not a contrasting sound anywhere 22:19, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Sounds not in the Ipa
After discovering the "lateral vowel", I have found more distinc sounds that the human mouth can produce and the human ear can distinguish that are "out of bounds", such as the

Vestibular stop: when you stick your tongue in the space between the teeth and lips (according to wikipedia that's what that place is called). Very loud sound. You can make a click out of it too, but it sounds more like someone making that "smooching sound" than a click.

linguolabiodental fricative: when you stick your tongue between your teeth and lips to make the th and f sounds simultaneously. You can also make a stop in this position, but I'm not sure if its distinct enough.

Sublaminal smack: allot of English speakers know how to make this one, but I find very little literature on it. It's when you smack the bottom of your mouth with you tongue (it's an annoying sound young children sometimes make). It sounds like a click in that it doesn't use the lungs, but it pushes air outwards rather than sucking it in (a lingual explosive?), its the only consonant of its kind, all other potential lingual explosives are inaudible.

Greatbuddha (talk) 18:42, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, none of them are in the IPA and I think I know why: they're not found in any language X) Now, as to why that happens, it's a different story. First of all, the vestibular stop. It is a loud sound, yeah, and very distinguishable, but it requires far too much motion to be useful. For me, to move the tongue into the gap between the upper teeth and lip, I also need to jut my jaw forwards which, repeated several times, tends to strain muscles. Then, the linguolabiodental fricative. It's also a rather distinguishable sound, though not as much as the previous one, but its instability is against it. It's really a precision sound - it's very prone to either fronting to [ɸ] or [f], or to backing to [θʷ] and then to [θ]. The sublaminal smack, finally, is also a distinguishable sound, but it has a few difficulties (if I'm pronouncing it correctly, that is) - it's difficult to combine with other sounds. While I could do it in isolation, inserting it into words just basically randomly moves it to [ɺ] or [ɽ] or [ɖ] most of the time. 12:45, June 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

?
Why my alphabet texrg are deleted?

here is ttf and description in poland. Is script to convert normal text to conscript.

Whats hapened?

I don't understand. 23:36, June 26, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ethandabomb
Hi, I'm new on this wiki and would like to make a conlang, but I am not sure on all the technical terms and such. Thanks! Ethandabomb (talk) 22:01, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Ethan (which is what I'm gonna call you from now on regardless of your objections :D ), and welcome aboard :D "Technical terms" itself is a really wide term, puns aside, and I'd suggest you either read Zompist's Language Construction Kit or, if you want, just jump into conlanging by yourself and ask questions along the way! 22:15, June 30, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Nightmarelang, Ojibwe vs Sanskrit
Which do you find more needlessly complex and infuriating?

Does the illogical morphophonology of sanskrit win out?

Or the three million personal agreement circumfixes of Ojibwe

Hate ablaut more than vowel mutation, or less?

Both languages share countless verb classes and noun declinations

Hate conjugating for tense more?

Or for valency

Endings with random irregularities here or there just to break any patterns you might use to memorise them

I'd like to see your opinion.

Greatbuddha (talk) 06:16, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ojibwe is logical, though, more so than Sanskrit. Sanskrit is just plain batshit sometimes (although Avestan beats it, I think). I vote for Sanskrit :D 13:32, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

But doesn't the sheer size of this thing look a little frightening?

http://imp.lss.wisc.edu/~jrvalent/BackUps/NLIP_Year_4_2008_bu13jul08/attachments/SWOjibweVTAVAI3Modes0.pdf

If you stare at it long enough you can start to notice patterns, but ojibwe morphology is extremely nonconcantenative and the infixes have very abstract meanings, not to mention epenthetic vowels and contractions. For example

giwabaamaanaadogenag means: We(inc.) might have given them (something)

gi-: is the second person prefix. whether the second person is subject or object depends on the first suffix

wabaam is the root

-aa- is the "superior to inferior" person marker, means that the prefix must be the subject.

-naan- (changed to naa by morphophonological rules) is the first person plural infix. The mixture of second person prefix and first person plural marker indicates a first person exclusive participant. The "-aa-" indicates that this is the subject.

-dog-(changed to dogena by the enlcitic) is the dubiative marker

-g indicates a 3rd person plural participant. The "aa" indicates that this is the object.

And this is only independant clauses

In a dependant clause, that same verb would be "wabaamaawangwaa""

"aaw" is the conjunct dubiative marker, in a different place than its independant counterpart.

"ang" is an unholy fusion of "gi", "aa", and "naan"

"waa" is the 3rd person plural marker for conjunct clauses. The "ang" indicates that it is the object.

Take that sanskrit.

Greatbuddha (talk) 20:00, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's true, but Ojibwe is perfectly predictable! Inuit languages are like Ojibwe, are polysynthetic, but they also have far more complex morphophonological rules that govern verb forms. That doesn't mean it's any less predictable. Sanskrit, on the other hand, has very unpredictable forms and, coupled with extremely complex sandhi, is itself unpredictable. Doesn't mean I don't like it, though, far from that, hah. If you want a truly batshit nightmarelang, I'd say Old Avestan takes the cake, with its extremely weird vowel alternations and vowel concatenations (tąm kauuā vīštāspō magahiiā xšaθrā nąsat - where the language contrasts long vowels (such as <ū>) with two vowels (such as <uu>) ) and its nearly random morphology 20:14, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Didn't you scroll down to the conjunct section? There's allot of unpredictablilty in the 3>3 section.

Like waabamad: waabamadiban

waabamangid: waabamagidiban

But

waabamingod: waabamingopan

Or

waabamad: waabamaawaden

waabamangid: waabamaawangiden

Yet

waabamingod: waabamigogwen

That seems pretty random to me.

Greatbuddha (talk) 20:26, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I looked at it. I mean, it does look like it's completely random and all over the place (and I'd never say it's anywhere near simple as I have a 1000+ page grammar of Ojibwe with me and verbs alone are from p#213 to p#703 ) but what I have of Avestan is a grammar of basically random categories: no two noun classes have the same amount of categories they're inflecting for - they vary in numbers, cases, alternate forms, alternate suffixes, adjective acceptance and other things. Every noun class has a different case in which it is used as an adverb, and no single noun is predictable for anything other than number and case and can belong to several different noun classes in theory. As far as I know, Ojibwe is just complex, not bogglingly irregular 20:48, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thou hast a point, it is a game of apples and oranges.

Greatbuddha (talk) 20:56, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, no matter how we argue, each has an irrefutable point :D (yours might be stronger, though, that much I admit) 21:17, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

I have looked at a grammar of avestan, and if ojibwe were a gleaming metroplolis of complexity, avestan is a mangled corpse arranged into "art" by a serial killer. Seriously, how did avestani children not get hemmorhages learning their language? (Unless avestan was a zombiefied literary language that became so irregular because it was kept alive by tradition, that is my theory on how it became so illogical.)

Greatbuddha (talk) 21:22, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

It was real enough, unfortunately, as the mantras attributed to Zoroaster and the Gathas are very self-consistent in their already rabid language. I mean, "dāuuōi" (in order for X to be given to me) says it all. I'm just glad it died out 21:51, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Alrighty
Using that info you gave me, I've decided to work on a language called Thoktala, which combines Old Norse and Russian together. However, given my limited knowledge of phonology, I'd like a few pointers on what to start with (I'm already trying to learn Russian if that helps). If you don't mind of course? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:18, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Long time since I've heard from you :D

Of course I don't mind :D If you're combining Old Norse and Russian, you have a lot of vowels from one and palatalisation from the other. Old Norse had <a e i o u y æ ǫ ø> (/a e i o u y ɛ ɒ œ/) as distinct vowels, and each vowel could have length and nasalisation, while Russian has palatalisation on almost every consonant (The exceptions are /ʂ ʐ j/ I believe). If you mash those two together, you'll get an unholy mix of both. I'd suggest dropping vowel length and nasalisation from Old Norse, as well as merging <ǫ ø> into a single <ö> or something (as happened in Icelandic); as for the Russian segment of the phonology, I'd cut out stress and /ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ z/ from the end result. There probably still will be a lot of consonants, but you can play it safe with /p b t d k g f θ s x m n ŋ l r v j/ and their palatal counterparts (except I'd expect both /ŋʲ/ and /nʲ/ to become [ɲ])- in Old Norse (and Icelandic today), <þ> is word-initial and <ð> is its internal counterpart - both are actually /θ/ which can be realised as both [θ] and [ð] (in the same positions that the <þ> vs. <ð> distinction is made); Old Norse didn't have /d g/ between vowels - they were historically shifted to [ð v] = /θ v/ - nor did it have any vowel other than outside of the first syllable. It allowed clusers like etc, but also had a single/double consonant distinction (mín/mínn = my (female)/my (male) - to name an example). These are just some of the features and observances I made, sorry if it's a bit blocky to read or an incoherent wall of goo X) 22:37, July 9, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Nice. Thanks for the assistance. I'm a little slow, so I'll have read through this thoroughly before I make any moves, but I hope to have something soon. I'm looking forward to completing this one. So many plans... :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:22, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

If you need any explanation, I'll be glad to assist :D 10:07, July 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Well I'd be happy if you could relieve some of the stress of digesting all that information you left me. :p Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:08, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'd suggest either coffee, or omeprazol if you're really having serious digestion problems X) 20:51, July 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Why thank you for the advice, but I can't drink coffee and I don't the pink liquid. :P Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:08, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

But, if you don't, the pink liquid, what were you, all this time? Also, omeprazol isn't a pink liquid for you to, it's sold as a capsule here for you to, for your stomach issues :D 22:21, July 10, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Me? I'm Viva! But seriously, I didn't pay too much to the kinds of capsules that are being used for our imperfect bodies. Too many to count. We have really different views of life... Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:07, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Help, please
Sorry to bother, but would you know how to write an uvular /w/, that is, a labiouvular approximant? After some research I discovered the IPA doesn't have a symbol for the uvular approximant nor an "uvularized" diacritic, so I don't quite know how to write it ...

Count Blech (talk) 02:10, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

The IPA does have an uvular approximant: [ʁ] - it uses one symbol for both the approximant and fricative, while the trill is [ʀ]. A labiouvular approximant would probably be [ʁʷ], then :D 09:58, July 13, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thank you :) Count Blech (talk) 16:38, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

No problem - I'm here to help :D 16:59, July 13, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Word Creation
This part has had me stumped for a while. How exactly do you come up with the words for the language you make? I often find myself creating words from thin air that sound remotely like the language I'm trying to create (Xivonaki), while trying to make it a language that is considerably pleasing to reading and look at; my point being such as creating titles like Shogun, Daimyo, Caesar, and Imperator, but not like the lord wierd looking ones. Just trying to come up with words that are good for naming things and the like while not being unbearably long, if you've been able to understand my gibberish. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:37, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Any normal language has a considerable inventory of monosyllables and disyllables; you can make a lot of words simply by going with random syllables, but that isn't fun, is it :D I essentially start with a general look and the sounds - the look I first wanted to acheive was vaguely Japonic mixed with Germanic, but it's since grown into something unique, what with bizzare sound combinations and stress patters Indo-Europeans aren't that used to (hsarē, sdūnak, rdōn, Akashēs, but also diman, asho, næs). Ktarh phonotactics and phonology are quite limiting in some respect (for example, you can't have /dr/, /nt/, /sx/, there can't be any words with final clusters, such as, say /oks/, /ent/, /ilk/, but there's also no /p b g/) but they're also very flexible (almost completely ignoring the sonority hierarchy, allowing /rxaka/ and /rʃim/, and possessing no voicing assimilation, so that /tʃ/, /tʒ/ and /dʃ/ contrast) giving me some liberties and limits I'd never have with Indo-European languages (/rkazʔux/ is OK, but /sink/ and /sinks/ would never be). The way I make my dictionary is actually that I begin with a logogram and decide how it would sound. I tend to limit myself to two or three syllables as I have 10452 possible syllables and that's more than enough for anything I'll ever make :D 22:03, July 14, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Dang. Well thank you for the tips, I'll see how I can apply them to my language. :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:06, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I miscalculated, I actually have 20539 possible syllables with 12 consonants and 12 vowels xD Just, you need to find a sound combination that you like, then probably change one feature of it (so that, while I like /xsu/, I'll also use /xsi/, /xtu/ and /nsu/ in related words) 22:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Yeesh. I truly wish I had the same level of understanding about phonology as you man. Making an entire language is draining my ability to think properly. >.< Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:22, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Heh, don't worry about it! I'm not even that good, I'm just moderately good. I've been into conlanging for 4-5 years now, there are people who've been at it for decades - best advice would be just never to give up :D 10:23, July 15, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Yes sir. One final question. I've been interested in developing a written language similar to Japanese and Chinese. So I've been seeking to create something that could possibly rival the two. Any ideas or advice you could impart? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 12:55, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

I'm actually working on that as well! This here is a sample of it; it's this mantra, but in the so-called "temple-script". Morphological information is in the small glyphs, and the lexical information is in the full-sized ones. Sorry if it's a bit rugged, I drew it in fifteen mintues, but it explains my process.

Basically what you want is a lexical part and a phonological part, as Chinese and Maya and Sumerian had. I went like that, but somewhere along the way dropped most of the phonetic information, and what remains of it is actually from a different language so it's basically useless. Instead, I have some radicals which carry the basic information of the word and semi-random variations that decide the precise meaning. Hanzi work well for Chinese since it's an isolating language, but in both my case and that of Japanese, there needs to be further information encoded. I encode my information in the form of morphological markers that can be alternated with syllable glyphs, while Japanese uses only syllable glyphs (kana) as morphological markers. Every glyph can have a handful of readings, sure, but at its core it has only one meaning, or several closely related meanings. All logographic systems came from pictograms, direct drawings of the meaning - so, for example, the Chinese glyph for man (rén, 人) comes from this pictogram of a man - but had simplified in the meanwhile. The resemblances today are very, very faint, but some properties (such as the legs of rén) can be identified with its meaning. Also, logographic scripts change over time. You might get new characters, abstractions of loanwords, but also compounds with non-analysable meaning might arise. Hope that explains it clearly and simply enough :D 15:10, July 16, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

You explained it very clearly. I want to make a written language people would feel comfortable tattooing on their back. Also, I like your work on that script. Oh yeah, if you make a dictionary or something like it, could I use your Kti language for a nation I'm planning? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:57, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks and sure X] I'm in the process of making a glyph dictionary and I'm at 214 right now (I didn't even know I had 214 different glyphs :o ). The script's all with straight edges, but I used a calligraphy pen so it had to be a bit rounded :) Sure you can use the language, I'd be honoured to let you, even! 20:02, July 16, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thank you! Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:08, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Just throwing this out there, but which of these three languages–Inuit, Old Norse, and Russian, would you consider best for combining? I'm planning a culture that is based on a cold island, and is very tribal in their actions and deeds. Since I like Norse and Russian history, and Inuit culture and survival, I've been contemplating blending the three. If not, I'd just like to get some idea of how to structure my planned language. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:43, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm... not sure if I understand :S Which of the two is best when combined? If that's the question, I'd pick Old Norse and Inuit; if it's some other question, I'm afraid you'll have to explain. 09:41, July 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

I kinda thought I'd confuse you be going over the mountains and through the woods the way I asked that question. Sorry. What I meant to say (now that I've gotten the proper amount of sleep), is which of the three languages would be easier and clear to combine. However, you've answered that bit. As for the latter part, I was simply stating that I was attempting to bring in elements from all three, if that were possible. But now that I think about it, I believe sticking with Old Norse and Inuit would be better. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:34, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

If you want some Russian as well, have verbs come in pairs according to aspect (bonus points for the pairs being perfective and imperfective) as that is one of the major features that all Slavic languages, from the first attestation in 863 to now, have in their very core. An example I'd give is "есть" vs. "съесть", where the first is the imperfective, continuous "eat" with the implication that you aren't done, and the second is closer to "eat in entirety, eat up". 15:46, July 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Inuit nouns have 9 cases and 3 numbers, something russians would be familiar with. Here are some changes I would anticipate upon contact between inuit and either russian or old norse

-Inuit languages have far simpler consonant and vowel systems than russian or old norse, and their consonants are prone to mutation, inuit has very assimilatory consonant clusters, and only 3 vowels.

-The dual number would be the first casualty, no surprises there

-From what I know of Metis creole and navajo, the polysynthetic verbal system would NOT go away. Very few Russian/Norse verbs would be incorporated, the vast majority would be superficially added to the verbal system as incorporated nouns. Some of the more obscure aspects of the verbal system would be lost, but the language would still retain subject-object agreement and noun incorporation.

However, nouns will probably be much more malleable, In Metis, French articles and prepositions were readily incorporated, and most nouns were French in origin.

Of course, I'm speaking of creoles, if your going for a non-creole inspired by russian, norse, and inuit, it's more up to you what goes in and what stays out. I'd challenge you to make the grammar more polysynthetic, most conlangs I know which try something like this would stick with more Norse and Russian grammar because the author is too unfamilliar with polysynthetic grammar (obviously not elector dark though he loves polysynthetic languages.)

P.S Elector dark have you looked at the languages of Brittish columbia and Washington? Some of them might put Avestan to shame, in particular Takelma (too bad the authors of these grammars do a really S****y job explaining them.)

Greatbuddha (talk) 16:17, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, I do love me some polysynthesis :]

Actually, I've just started reading about the Athabaskan and Wakashan languages as they're next on my list; Takelma I didn't even know about, and it's really hard to find proper material on (I mean, I haven't found any yet). I'll have to tip my hat to Wakashan languages, where several languages feature clitics that never come close to the actual constituent they relate to, but instead bind to something totally unrelated. Inuit and related languages are strong contenders for complex polylangs, though. I suggest you take a look at Nuxalk if you want to put Avestan to multiple levels of shame, all at once. 17:29, July 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Well now, thank you Greatbuddha. I think I'll take you up on that challenge. Polylangs appear to be pretty interesting (I was trying to go for a language that could produce long words as well), so I'll see what I can make of it. Hats off to you both. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:01, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

I have a Tlingit grammar, several Navajo grammars, two west and one each of north and east Greenlandic grammars, a scanned 600 page Ojibwe grammar, a Kwak'wala and Nuu-chah-nulth grammar, a Sahaptin grammar... yeah, I could go on; do you want any of those as a resource? 22:16, July 22, 2013 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate