User talk:Elector Dark

Chat
Could you come to chat please?

I'm actually developing the romlang and would like to ask you some questions, if that's permitted. :P --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Me harassing you again, now about Quxnaṣ. I'm going to make polysyntheticity and wtfusion parts of it and would like to know more about both. To avoid such embarrassing encounters like the previous time, could you write when you'll be available? --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Probably tonight, around 11PM your time; I'm not home r/n 12:48, April 26, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Oh. Well, I'm not quite certain if I'll be on then. I'll write you like 15 minutes earlier if I'll be available. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Swearing
Hello,

I was wondering: are we permitted to have on our languages' pages sections about swearing? With swear words, obviously? You know, because colloquialisms and slurs tend to be in that category...

ZgorigTuķuže (talk) 03:25, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

'Ello, other admin here. I personally don't object, though perhaps it might be a good idea to put swearing under a spoiler tag, so that readers may choose whether they want to see it or not. I doubt we'd have any visitors who'd be offended by it, but in my opinion it's always best to be on the safe side. [This has been a Public Service Announcement from your Friendly Neighbourhood Admin.] 04:14, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

Nah it's not bad as long as it's handled tactfully and respectively; if I were you I'd actually make a subpage about profanity that I'd link on the main page. The link would be something like Page Name Here copied into the page and edited appropriately. 08:27, April 27, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Test Phrases
Hello there. I'm quite new user here and been working on a language for a week or so now. Is there, on this wiki I mean or elsewhere in internet, like a set of phrases with which you could "test" your conlang? I could really use such because this happens to be the first time I'm creating a language. I'm sorry to bother you with such menial thing as this, but I didn't know of who other I could've asked. Aren't admins for questions anyway?

Your (this Wiki's) template category is a mess. You don't mind if I try to organize it? -- Remos talk 11:51, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Hello there! I'm quite new to Wikia too, although I can try to answer some of your question.

The following link has over a thousand sentences, increasing in order of grammatical complexity:

http://www.potterpcs.net/gsfa/.

Rootleft3 (talk)

Ah yes, I would've suggested those sentences as well. They're a bit nonsensical, but as for testing grammatical constructions, they're decent. As for organizing categories, I've been working on them, and would appreciate the task of organizing them to me. If you really wish to help, I just ask that you consult me first, preferably in the chatroom if possible. [This has been a Public Service Announcement from your Friendly Neighbourhood Admin.] 21:47, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Been refraining from commenting because you guys seem to know what you're all talking about together so eh I dunno 13:08, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Dialect
So you remember the folk song in a(n old?) German dialect I've sent a shitload of time earlier? Turned out to most probably be a Franconian dialect. Irrelevant, but whatever.

Also, how to make/could you implement a chat shortcut in the monobook sidebar? And what were the methods of Prussia you mentioned? --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

1) I kinda vaguely remember sth existing O:

2) I don't think I can, unfortunately

3) Methods of Prussia? Do remind me, my memory is senile at times :c 09:29, May 31, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

1) Okay. Mentioned it because I wondered whether it's Upper German then.

2) Ah, whatever. I've seen some wikis which do have it, though.

3) Eh, I don't know anything about that. We were just playing the game of meat bicycle (aka chitchatting w/o a defined point) and you said something like "de medodn võ braißn" and then when I wondered what it is and of what it is. You said that in "standard" German it's "die Metoden vom Preußen" (sic). So I wonder what you meant. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Oh that, the rendering was basically just what it'd look in the standard; and I don't think there are any specific Prussian methods. I did later on say that it ought to be "der Preußen", but that Bavarian took the dative for those constructions. It was just an example of Bavarian and the illiteracy of Bavarians B] 11:12, May 31, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Doubt
Sorry to bother, but I've been doing some languages and when using the neat little template that shows up when doing a new language, changing yes into the conjugation boxes doesn't make it green and I've been unable to discover if I'm doing it wrong (if I have to change the box to something else) or if it's a wikia problem or something else.

Lvcrf7 (talk) 19:58, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's supposed to be "yes" in particular. Not 100% sure but that's what I use :O 21:49, June 4, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Doublechecking work
Okay, I've done a considerable amount of research into phonology, and have begun work on my language in a more serious manner. Before I get started, I wanted to know if you could check the combinatorics of my language first, and see if they make sense. I've got some other rules for the language I've written down, which I'll be putting up later on, but I just wanted to run the first part by you first. Thanks if you have the time. :) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:11, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I suggest you go do your own thing with those, as Kti is a bad model because of its immense age :D But yeah they work! 14:30, June 5, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Understood. I'm hoping that the language will make sense though. Because, seriously, I honestly have no clue what information I'd have to know to even work on a language. :P Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:50, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I'm also going to be taking some of the boxes on your pages. They look very professional. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:58, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

If you want, I could explain stuff to ya via Wiki chat or some external chat method (I have Skype and Steam) so things start going a bit smoother where we can smoothe them out :D 07:55, June 6, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Sure, that'll work. I've got Steam, but wiki chat is good too. So if you want to talk about this, then we can set up a time whenever you feel like it. :) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:06, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

I'm on right now, so Wiki chat works 20:13, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Germanic Conlang Challenge
The Germanic Conlang Challenge begins in 2 weeks!

Sign up here if you want to participate. If you don't want to participate in the relay, do mention it. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Misha Lexicon
I wanted to nominate Mìša as one of the potential ancestors for my descendant lang contest, but I couldn't find any lexicon for it on the wiki, and without a lexicon it wouldn't be viable to derive a descendant from. If you have a file available, could you please upload it to the wiki?

Tee Seven (talk) 02:02, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

I don't have much of a vocabulary established, but there's something to the tune of fiftyish terms penned. I'll see to putting the stuff up over the weekend~ 12:58, June 18, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Best Historical Linguistics Book
My birthday's coming up so I wanted to ask for a book in historical linguistics. I know you recommended Herbert Schendl's book, but it wasn't on Amazon and my family is a huge amazon user. However, I did manage to find four decent-looking books for only a few dollars- problem is, I can't decide which is best. Here's the links.

Historical Linguistics: An Introduction

An Introduction to Historical Linguistics

Historical Linguistics

Historical Linguistics: An Introduction

Could you please help me decide which to get?

Tee Seven (talk) 02:18, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

I recommend Schendl's book because it is a terrific, thorough, yet simple introduction to historical linguistics that doesn't bog you down in metalinguistics but just explains concepts. It's the best low-level introduction I've read, but not quite of too much merit to someone who knows a lot of things linguistic. I'd not buy Terry Crowley's book, as most of what it does is look at the history of Polynesian languages, despite its supposedly general nature. Lyle Campbell and Larry Trask do exquisite stuff, and theirs is of a higher level than the other books. Dunno about Lehmann, but either Campbell or Trask (Trask's book has a second edition that's far fresher, though a used copy hovers around $22) ought to work better for you than Schendl's booklet, especially since you have some sort of decently firm theoretical grounding.

P.S. Checked with a friend, they use Trask's book as their coursebook for their historical linguistics course in Helsinki.

10:42, June 20, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks so much! I'll get Trask's book, then.

Tee Seven (talk) 13:36, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Glad to have helped ^ ^ 15:35, June 20, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Conscripts
I heard you know how to make conscripts work on computers. If you do, could you help me with that? Thanks. Joersc (talk) 03:43, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

I used to know how, but then Wikia changed the whole thing and now it sucks and doesn't work :\ 10:42, June 20, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Images
Hi, I was having trouble with a page I am writing. For my page for Leerish, I am trying to make a chart to compare the letter in the latin alphabet, the letter in the native script, the pronunciation of the letter, and an example of a word using that grapheme. The problem I'm having is with the row for inserting the native script. I have small images of each letter in the script, and I am trying to insert them into the cells of the table, however I am being unsuccessful in that. I was hoping to get some help as to how I can do this, if it's at all possible.

Thanks,

Aryo

So, the first thing you have to do is upload the images. This is done via the Special:Upload page. After that, you can follow the MediaWiki image help guide to help you acheive what you want :D Hope that does it for you~ 09:52, June 27, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ivan the Terrible
I still can't get what sort of weed could cause you to think that the pic you've sent me most recently in chat is something funny. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

I don't know, but I found it macabrely funny, hoped you'd do so too :C 22:31, July 9, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Diachronic changes in High German dialects?
Since you speak Bavarian and are into linguistics, do you have anything with diachronic changes in High German dialects, as opposed to all the Standard German stuff that's all over the place? Joersc (talk) 05:00, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

Uhm, I do know some stuff but I dunno how useful it might be. Most of the things line up with Standard German as it's derived from a Central German variety. For the most part, there has been another consonant shift involved in Alemannic and Bavarian, 'b d g > p t k / #_'. Old High German is basically the starting point for all dialects, and Middle High German is the basis for most dialects, including Bavarian, Yiddish and Alemannic. From there on the dialects basically developed independently and you'd best look into changes leading up to Middle High German. 09:52, July 16, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Any tips?
Hi ED! I'm still very new to conlanging in general and I would really appreciate some tips on just what to do in general. I tend to not plan very well, so most of my langauges end up running straight into the ground, so if you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

P.S. Would you mind responding to this on my talk page?

Th1nkja1lbreak (talk) 16:28, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

Palatalization in Norman
Wikipedia says that in "Southern Norman" palatalization is present to a lesser extent, so "chastel" would be totally possible for a late mediaeval (Southern, ofc) Norman manuscript. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Huh, totally forgot about the Joret line. Good catch. 12:34, July 18, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

hi again.  I swear I'll delete these...
Thanks for the advice! I will definitely read it. Of those features that you mentioned, evidentiality is the only one im not fully familiar with; I'm googling it now. Interesting that you mention the dual number....I always want to include it but u run out of distinct derived affixes that don't sound weird (for a posteriori's) and in the case of a prioris, I can't THINK of any more affixes that don't sound weird :p but anyway, thanks again. Also I don't think im a Chinese Skype hooker spammer, but I may be wrong so don't hold me to that XD.

(Th1nkJa1lbreak)

PS on a scale of 1 to My-Eyes-are-legit-bleeding how bad is http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Italicys_(Traditional_Itálicce)

1) Didn't understand a thing you were saying 2) it's very unclear and has a few nonsense passages etc. s: 11:14, July 19, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Harassing
Me again (and I'll clear this section every now and then). What do you think about making the relay "a bit" nonstandard, say, doing it in IPA? I need consent on this.

Feel free to answer whenever you return - Eli's b-day is soon and I'll be in the Saakashvili-ruled butthole from 11th to 18th. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

It would indeed be quite a bit creative, though it depends on what the other results look like. I am tentatively tactfully supporting the idea, it might be a good thing. IPA might not be the best idea, but we could do it :D would be interested in hearing what other stuff you come up with for the relay, too. 19:53, August 9, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

So far I have only one other option - writing it in conventional verse, with rhyme and stress pattern and whatnot, though I'll write that suggestions will be appreciated when I'll finish at least the strong verbs. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

(Me again.) Do you have something on North Frisian? Preferably on the northernmost dialects, i.e. Öömrang or Söl'ring. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

I have Sölring here, but no Öömrang ;__; ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate 21:50, September 3, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, that's exactly what I sought. Would be happy заиметь (to get hold of) a grammar of a Limburgish dialect which misuses palatalization, but know that there probably aren't grammars on such dialects. :P --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Is a sound change ī > ai > oi > ō (> oə) possible in a High German dialect? --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Yes but over a bigger stretch of time; it'd take at least 400 years. 18:33, September 21, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Oh, okay. I want to make a less unpronounceable and more realistic Germanic conlang, this time doing something that copies vaguely resembles Luxembourgish, particularly the SC í > ə in a 2+ syllable word (I believe that's /_$ or something). Speaking of that, could such a sound change be restricted only to roots? --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Assuming root stress, you can limit it to roots yeah. 19:50, September 21, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Now a question more fitting to the section title, yet less important compared to the others. Is there a decent source of sound changes from OHG to child languages? --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Word Creation
I don't know if I've asked you this question before, so please forgive me if I have. How do you come up with words for your languages? I'm going with a root system (person, place, tool, etc.), and have the cases in place, but I don't know how to actually come up with the words themselves. Do you just come up with words that work with your phonotactic system and then just tack everything else on, or is there some super secret method people are using that I don't know about? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:04, July 20, 2015 (UTC)

Basically either random words, or using a word generator such as Awkwords. Nothing fancier :\ 10:26, July 21, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thanks. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:18, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Help with languages
Hi there! I saw your reply to my proposal on the Ancestor Lang challenge, and I would like to thank you for your feedback and constructive criticism! However, there's going to be one small issue fixing all those things...

I'm very new to all this and have no idea what I'm doing.

So I would love your assistance in things such as the syntax and the stress rules and the sort. Thank you for your time! OrangeHills 21:29, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Adverbial clause
Can I make adverbial clauses appear, let's say, only in either the beginnings of sentences or between the subject and the verb (SVO word order)? Also, what other syntactical stuff do I need? I'm working on Old Pelhaforan at the moment. Sunazhum (talk) 01:31, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

You generally can, yeah. 13:32, July 24, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

About that syntax....
So, ED, I hear you are pretty insistent on "complete" syntax so would you mind sharing what you consider a decent syntax so that I can improve mine?

There exist individuals with severe diarrhea of the mouth but also a constipation of the ideas that is just as severe (talk) 20:28, July 29, 2015 (UTC)

Like, at the very least a decent overview of phrases, subordinate and relative clauses, passives and auxiliary constructions and whatnot, interrogatives, maybe even topicalisation and emphasis. 21:55, July 29, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

See that "Describing Morphosyntax" book, it will aid you in that no less than ED. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

лукс лайк кауфман ыз луркинг...

Thanks guys! I think i have at least that, ED, and Kaufman, I'll look into the book.

There exist individuals with severe diarrhea of the mouth but also a constipation of the ideas that is just as severe (talk) 21:50, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

I am totally lurking. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

New Feature
I had an idea that indead of or in addition to the "top edited pages," you (I ask you instead of AK since you're the programmer o3o) could program some magical softwear that picks up the most visited (by log-in with a maximum of one visit per week) 5 pages on the site per week in the language template (since Ak adds that template to all the languages). I ask because a most visited page is more accurate in which conlang is more popular (rather than most edited). I mean: feel no obligation or anything, though. If you don't want or you think it's bad, feel free to burn me out, I wouldn't be offended o3o

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 05:50, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Not something we can actually do on Wikia, plus it'd be pretty hard to program. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea, just not one we can reasonably pull off (PS it's a category, not a template). ED

No, yeah, it's fine. I completely understand. I'm not a programmer so I wouldn't know: I was just putting it out there (though, someone else already had I bet o3o).

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 16:00, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Esperanto Classification
I was talking with Osswix, Andalie, Rototom, and Jœrsc and we got into a conversation about a priori vs. a posteriori. I said Esperanto and Snowska (Andalie's lang) aren't a posteriori because they just take words from other sources, their grammar isn't related at all, and they don't have any real sound changes; they said that they are because the words are still "from" the language. What do you think? If doesn't really fit into either category, could I suggest a new term, langue au frankenstein (Language of Frankenstein in French) meaning languages that are just compilations of other languages (such as Esperanto, Parlomas, and Snowska).

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 23:25, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

They're technically not a posteriori in that they do not come from other languages, they merely steal, but they're not quite 100% a priori in that they still take a lot from natlangs. Frankenlangs is a good ad-hoc term I guess heh. I guess it could work, though they still are a priori to the biggest extent of their being. 11:06, August 20, 2015 (UTC)~ ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Thank you (my point is proven!)

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 03:09, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

Any reason you deleted Ido? To feel big? Novparl 5.150.74.26 16:44, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

That's pathetic. The main reason was really the lack of the information in the article, and the reason like "it's so widely known hurr durr" is not enough to justify it. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Romanido revert
Hello! Do you mind deleting the Romanido page? I'm planning to revert Latineo to the original name and make a few improvements. Thanks. Lwyx (talk) 21:09, September 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks again! Lwyx (talk) 18:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Partnership
Hello, how are you? I am FrenchTouch, second-in-charge and editor-in-chief of THE BEST PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE, a website about self-written literature, and editorial shit, hosted by Wikia.

In view of a future expansion in our major literature universe, we would like to establish a partnership between us two, as well as the Conworld Wikia and the Fiction Wikia, for the sole reason that our concepts are very similar, if not really identical, and that we really appreciate the work done here, because in all honesty, most pages I've seen on Conlang and Conworld are already a "Fucking Genius" class to me, seriously.

As told to an administrator over at Conworld, we would like you to be one of our first partner, for we would really want a wiki like this one to walk with us as we find it of an irresistible quality. Plus, I might contribute here a little, and/or get help from some contributors, for we are trying to construct a few languages too for a universe of our own.

So, if you want to see the message at Conworld, here it is. We will make sure to find the right way to create a solid bond between us, and be sure to take all the time you need.

Have a nice day, see you later, and good luck. Regards, FrenchTouch (talk)

Hey, would you mind linking your wiki to us here :? 20:08, September 21, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate


 * Oh, of course, excuse my stupidity and forgetfulness, here it is. I hope you appreciate it. And pro-tip, don't stop to our editorial point of view and ambient "bastardness," in reality we are amical :)

FrenchTouch (talk)

New Challenge
How do I start a challenge? I was thinking of doing a "xenolang" challenge where the goal is make an a posteriori lang that isn't germanic, romantic, or slavic and the winner is the one with the most realistic, well done, interesting lang: unless there's another challenge after the germlang challenge. I assume that I have to run it by the admins (ie, you), so I asked you and AK.

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 19:35, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

You start a challenge by pestering a few people's talk pages, making a blog post some time in advance and set the rules with as many loopholes patched up as you can manage. I don't think anything's up after the Germlang challenge; this one gets my full endorsement! 19:54, September 21, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Xenolang Challenge
You are hereby invited to my Xenolang Challenge. Here is the sign-up and the details.

Maxseptillion77 (talk) 21:57, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

A Prioris
Hi ED! Sorry if this is too broad, but do you have any general advice on a priori conlangs? I'd really appreciate anything that might help.

Thanks,

My dear Fortunato, you are luckily met! (Diskutoj) 19:59, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Ooh boy. This question is so goddamn broad like... there's a whole field of linguistics — historical linguistics — dedicated to just this. I suggest you start there. A good introduction I sometimes suggest is Herbert Schendl's Historical Linguistics which I got for 7€ a few years ago. Take a look at this very talk page, too; there are some good resources here. I can't really explain it to you in concise terms since the question is absurdly broad and open-ended. I can answer specific questions though. 23:15, September 24, 2015 (UTC) ~) The Elector, Darkness Immaculate

Ya, it is broad. Sorry about that. I've read Advanced Language Construction by the guy who made the LCK but it wasn't that helpful in dealing with the 'out of your ass' type stuff. I'll have to check out Historical Linguistics, though. Thanks for the reccomendation.

My dear Fortunato, you are luckily met! (Diskutoj) 23:22, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Yo, I changed the rules.
I have amended the rules on the modern slavlang challenge, and you may now hand out as many or as few downvotes as you so choose. The voting procedure is now relatively standard and your voting practices will no longer be affected. Hope you reconsider your choice to not participate!

Thanks,

My dear Fortunato, you are luckily met! (Diskutoj) 13:10, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Germanic Conlang Relay
The Germanic Conlang Relay has begun! Visit the page for more info. --DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Questions About Borrowing
Hey, ED. So I have a lang with the productive rules V + [+nasal con.] > Ṽ and [æ e i u] > [a æ ɨ o], both only in closed syllables. So if it were to borrow a word from a neighbor, say "kusten," would this be rendered "kostį" (vowels also tended to rise when nasalized) if it was borrowed at the time these rules were productive? Or would it stay closer to "kusten?"

Thanks,

Tee Seven (talk) 23:23, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Sound changes affect mostly every word in its lexicon, but at the same time, sound changes are historical (take for example the sk > ʃ in early English; 'ship' vs. 'skin' the latter of which is a later Norse loan). Therefore, if the word had been taken before or during the period of sound change, it would change, but not if it appears afterwards. Unless the sound changes apply to every word loaned in the language at that time (such as nasal vowels for French loans from English). I would assume that yes, it would be 'kusten' > 'kostį.'