User talk:Geckat

Hello Gacket,

I'm contacting you in reference to the Ta'agra language here on Conlang. The work you've already done is great but the vocabulary is a bit limited for what I need. You see I'm working on the Elder Kings mod for Crusader Kings 2, and currently our Khajiit make use of ancient egyptian for their titling, but what would be really great is if we could make it even more unique by including more appropriate titles for the desert (and jungle) cats. We've tried constructing some from the vocab available but they don't sound very good, what we need specifically are Khajiit equivalents of the following;

Emperor (Mane is a special religious title, akin to "Pope")

King

Duke

Count

Baron

Chancellor

Mayor

Priest

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

You can contact me at kor-elderkings -at- knuddelwuddel.net if you'd like to, and here's the Moddb release page for the mod if you're curious; http://www.moddb.com/mods/elder-kings

- Korba 31.150.219.12 17:43, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Korba.

The first thing to wonder would be about Khajiiti culture and whether these terms fit. The Mane is kiiind of a religious figure in that he's born during a specific phase of Tamriel's moons, but he's most definitely a political leader or at least figurehead, not a religious leader. That having been said, "Mane" is probably an English (or Cyrodiilic) word, likely a direct translation of the word for "mane" in Ta'agra; this fellow is called the Mane because he is covered in locks of the head-fur of his tribe and guard. So even that title we have is not Ta'agra! From the name of one Mane we have, I've supposed what the word for it might be.

Khajiiti society is, in general, quite anarchic. They live by Moon Sugar, so imagine a nation of people - already divided by geography and glorifying cleverness and self-gain - constantly high on a highly addictive stimulant. Couple that with the most thriving black market in Tamriel and... yeah, the idea specifically of such a hierarchy of noble titles seems like it would be foreign. Of course, the one thing that a nation of people hallucinating would take seriously is spirituality, and that would be why the Clan Mothers, religious leaders (for whom we don't have a Ta'agra word) are so important. I've taken the Khajiiti mother goddess's name as a basis for the word "mother". (Actually, with it, the goddess's name approximates "virgin mother".  Hrm.) Because I want to assume "Clan Mother" is a direct translation, I've also taken the liberty of adding a new word to the lexicon based on Arabic.

There are also chieftains. They don't head families and don't have much for political power, but rather military power. I've derived the word for "chieftain" from the word for "Mane". Given the origin for the rank of count (it kind of replaced the earl, which is a cognate of jarl), I think it would be best slotted there.

Other words would be borrowings - but not necessarily from Cyrodiilic/English. The Khajiit were quite fond of the Aldmeri Dominion for some time, and are part of it, so it's quite possible that their governmental terms are taken from the languages of Mer. I'm using Ayleid here for "king", and adding a diminutive for "duke".

For "chancellor" I'm going to mash the words for "family" and "speaker".

"Mayor" I'm going to make a borrowing from Cyrodiilic/English.

That leaves us with the following list:

Emperor: Rid-T'har ("Mane")

King: Aran ("King", from Ayleid)

Duke: Ja'aran ("Young King" using the native Ta'agra clitic ja')

Count: T'har ("Chieftain")

Baron: Pelin ("Knight", from Ayleid)

Chancellor: Epako-Puriit ("Family-Speaker")

Mayor: Meyur (from English/Cyrodiilic)

Priest: Shir-Fado (from fado "mother" derived from Fadomai "the mother goddess", and shir "clan" which I have synthesized from Arabic عشير ashirah)

I hope this helps. If you're unsatisfied with anything I've done here, let me know and we can certainly talk more!

Geckat (talk) 00:26, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hello Geckat,

Sorry, I completely forgot to check back here, been very busy. From the sounds of it the terms are great, they fit for me at least :)

I'll include them in our mod for the next version with crediting back to you of course. Do you think you could come up with the following as well?

Empire of

Kingdom of

Duchy of

County of

Barony of

Republic of

City of

"Archbishopric"* of

"Bishopric"* of

Temple/Church* of

Also, what would "The Two Moons" become in Ta'agra?


 * For lack of a better english word for this places. The way Crusader Kings 2 works is very rigid in it's structure, it has a very lineal hierarchy of 4 levels (Barony/County/Duchy/Kingdom), in 3 forms (Feudal, "City/Republic" and "Temple/Theocratic"), the Bishopric/Archibishopric represent the County and Duchy levels of a Theocratic state, City/Republic represent 2 levels of the Republican one (other levels are pretty much named after the previous one or slightly altered, so a County level republic state is called a Grand City of, while a Barony is just City of, a Duchy level becomes a Republic of, and a Kingdom level becomes Grand City of).

Regards,

Korba 31.150.242.46 18:13, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hello, friend. I once created a Khajiiti dictionary which you read, and perhaps used as part of the basis for your own work. I am a little late in responding to your comment, as I had left my page unattended for a long time. However, I have recently resumed my posting and happened upon your comment. If you are still interested in discoursing on Ta'agra'iss, I welcome you to send me a message (or post openly upon my page) at https://www.facebook.com/kharjokhajiit. It has been some time since I performed my analysis of the Khajiiti language so I am a little rusty in it, but I would welcome an opportunity to compare notes with an accreditted student of linguistics, and to correct what I may have gotten wrong in my original work. 62.150.3.219 22:37, October 12, 2013 (UTC) Kharjokhajiit

Hello Geckat,

You've done some really amazing work here! My husband and I have been working on developing Ta'agra further and if you're still around we'd love to discuss more about the language with you. All of our work is posted over at Dark Creations. http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/7691-developing-taagra/

We hope to hear back from you!

24.121.216.126 14:39, December 3, 2014 (UTC)Ra'Zakhar

Hi there,

If you want help, I can certainly lend it. I'll be honest that I get a little defensive about other Ta'agra projects so it'd be great if we could collaborate and ensure what we have jives with each other. You can even feel free to use this page to extend the lexicon (it looks like that's your main goal) if you like what I've done insofar as the phonology etc. And I'll certainly be available to discuss anything with you; I can be found on email/Google chat at geckat[at]gmail.com. Great to hear from you, and best of luck to you and your husband!

Geckat (talk) 15:49, December 3, 2014 (UTC)